Cells, Not DNA, Are The Master Architects Of Life...

[Fred Bloggs]

Retro- attribution:

\"As the famed French mathematician Henri Poincaré might have phrased it, cells are no more piles of genes than a house is a pile of bricks.\"

Scholarly summary of the topic:

https://www.noemamag.com/cells-not-dna-are-the-master-architects-of-life/

An example of just how primitive the understanding is, but they\'re getting there:

\'How do we know what we don\'t know?\': Scientists completely define the process of methylation

https://phys.org/news/2023-06-dont-scientists-methylation.html

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Sunday, June 4, 2023 at 2:43:35 AM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote:

Retro- attribution:

\"As the famed French mathematician Henri Poincaré might have phrased it, cells are no more piles of genes than a house is a pile of bricks.\"

Scholarly summary of the topic:

https://www.noemamag.com/cells-not-dna-are-the-master-architects-of-life/

This isn\'t any kind of scholarly summary but rather a bit of \"oh gosh\" mystification. We\'ve know that we\'ve got the same DNA in all the cells in bodies since we\'ve known about DNA, and we\'ve known for just as long that different cells in our bodies do different specialised jobs.

The DNA gets methylated, and different cells run different programs.

An example of just how primitive the understanding is, but they\'re getting there:

\'How do we know what we don\'t know?\': Scientists completely define the process of methylation

https://phys.org/news/2023-06-dont-scientists-methylation.html

In yeasts. Big deal. As a graduate student, I wrote a program that completely controlled a PDP-8. If I\'d kept at it, I might have contributed to the code that supports the Linus operating system. We are good deal more complicated than yeasts.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Fred Bloggs]

On Saturday, June 3, 2023 at 1:04:35 PM UTC-4, Anthony William Sloman wrote:

On Sunday, June 4, 2023 at 2:43:35 AM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote:
Retro- attribution:

\"As the famed French mathematician Henri Poincaré might have phrased it, cells are no more piles of genes than a house is a pile of bricks.\"

Scholarly summary of the topic:

https://www.noemamag.com/cells-not-dna-are-the-master-architects-of-life/
This isn\'t any kind of scholarly summary but rather a bit of \"oh gosh\" mystification. We\'ve know that we\'ve got the same DNA in all the cells in bodies since we\'ve known about DNA, and we\'ve known for just as long that different cells in our bodies do different specialised jobs.

You missed the point entirely. The days of baby analogies are over...

The DNA gets methylated, and different cells run different programs.
An example of just how primitive the understanding is, but they\'re getting there:

\'How do we know what we don\'t know?\': Scientists completely define the process of methylation

https://phys.org/news/2023-06-dont-scientists-methylation.html
In yeasts. Big deal. As a graduate student, I wrote a program that completely controlled a PDP-8. If I\'d kept at it, I might have contributed to the code that supports the Linus operating system. We are good deal more complicated than yeasts.

Huh?

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Sunday, June 4, 2023 at 4:46:08 AM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote:

On Saturday, June 3, 2023 at 1:04:35 PM UTC-4, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Sunday, June 4, 2023 at 2:43:35 AM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote:
Retro- attribution:

\"As the famed French mathematician Henri Poincaré might have phrased it, cells are no more piles of genes than a house is a pile of bricks.\"

Scholarly summary of the topic:

https://www.noemamag.com/cells-not-dna-are-the-master-architects-of-life/
This isn\'t any kind of scholarly summary but rather a bit of \"oh gosh\" mystification. We\'ve know that we\'ve got the same DNA in all the cells in bodies since we\'ve known about DNA, and we\'ve known for just as long that different cells in our bodies do different specialised jobs.

You missed the point entirely. The days of baby analogies are over...

So why did you just trot one out?

The DNA gets methylated, and different cells run different programs.

An example of just how primitive the understanding is, but they\'re getting there:

\'How do we know what we don\'t know?\': Scientists completely define the process of methylation

https://phys.org/news/2023-06-dont-scientists-methylation.html

In yeasts. Big deal. As a graduate student, I wrote a program that completely controlled a PDP-8. If I\'d kept at it, I might have contributed to the code that supports the Linus operating system. We are good deal more complicated than yeasts.

Huh?

Yeasts are unicellular animals. We are multi-cellular animals - fairly obviously more complicated. Different cells in our bodies need different patterns of methylation, as your first link spelled out. Do you read the links you post ? You clearly didn\'t understand the first one, cliched an obvious as it was.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Sat, 3 Jun 2023 09:43:30 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote in
<16c21c47-46b6-41fd-b7ad-e92de50a7c87n@googlegroups.com>:

Retro- attribution:

\"As the famed French mathematician Henri Poincaré might have phrased i=
t, cells are no more piles of genes than a house is a pile of bricks.\"

Scholarly summary of the topic:

https://www.noemamag.com/cells-not-dna-are-the-master-architects-of-life/

An example of just how primitive the understanding is, but they\'re getting =
there:

\'How do we know what we don\'t know?\': Scientists completely define the proc=
ess of methylation

https://phys.org/news/2023-06-dont-scientists-methylation.html

Nice article
the solution or question is:
How do cells communicate with other cells?

Same in our society,

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Sunday, June 4, 2023 at 3:40:06 PM UTC+10, Jan Panteltje wrote:

On a sunny day (Sat, 3 Jun 2023 09:43:30 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote in
16c21c47-46b6-41fd...@googlegroups.com>:

Retro- attribution:

\"As the famed French mathematician Henri Poincaré might have phrased i> >t, cells are no more piles of genes than a house is a pile of bricks.\"

Scholarly summary of the topic:

https://www.noemamag.com/cells-not-dna-are-the-master-architects-of-life/

An example of just how primitive the understanding is, but they\'re getting =
there:

\'How do we know what we don\'t know?\': Scientists completely define the proc= ess of methylation

https://phys.org/news/2023-06-dont-scientists-methylation.html

Nice article
the solution or question is:
How do cells communicate with other cells?

We have two systems that let them do that - the nervous system (which works with electrical signals) and the hormonal system, which depends on circulating chemicals (hormones) which is slower but offers a wider range of signals.

> Same in our society,

There\'s certainly quite a lot of communication between human individuals. By and large, cells don\'t lie to one another or put a lot of effort into spreading fatuous nonsense, so the analogy isn\'t up to much, though Jan Panteltje may not be aware that most of what he tells us is fatuous nonsense.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Sat, 3 Jun 2023 23:34:00 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
bot Anthony William wrote in
<8b3ac463-3bb0-4156-acbe-a2b5c7399b14n@googlegroups.com>:

On Sunday, June 4, 2023 at 3:40:06 PM UTC+10, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Sat, 3 Jun 2023 09:43:30 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Fred Bl=
oggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote in
16c21c47-46b6-41fd...@googlegroups.com>:

Retro- attribution:

\"As the famed French mathematician Henri Poincaré might have phrase=
d i=
t, cells are no more piles of genes than a house is a pile of bricks.\"=


Scholarly summary of the topic:

https://www.noemamag.com/cells-not-dna-are-the-master-architects-of-life=
/

An example of just how primitive the understanding is, but they\'re getti=
ng =
there:

\'How do we know what we don\'t know?\': Scientists completely define the p=
roc= ess of methylation

https://phys.org/news/2023-06-dont-scientists-methylation.html

Nice article
the solution or question is:
How do cells communicate with other cells?

We have two systems that let them do that - the nervous system (which works=
with electrical signals) and the hormonal system, which depends on circul=
ating chemicals (hormones) which is slower but offers a wider range of sign=
als.

You are confusing cells with organs

Same in our society,
There\'s certainly quite a lot of communication between human individuals. =
By and large, cells don\'t lie to one another or put a lot of effort into sp=
reading fatuous nonsense, so the analogy isn\'t up to much, though Jan Pante=
ltje may not be aware that most of what he tells us is fatuous nonsense.

Still running the same 100 line script?

Anyways, for cells to do their part in say when forming a humming bean (like you for example)
they have to know what other cells are doing to make decisions about what they do themselves.
Much like our society is evolving / structured..
A cell that becomes part of the retina or a cell that becomes part of the liver, or whatever,
cannot just do that from a basic plan (like the DNA) that all cells have (like a textbook).
It has to adapt to the cell society it exists in and follow some guidance, some feedback
so it knows its position, function and what role to play so to speak.
Are cancer cells rebels?

Its a bit of philosophy, yes I know they can make organs from basic cells,
build also organs needed to connect.. and have an individuality, 2 hearts or 10 eyes may
work for some species ....
So there must be some communication system, some hierarchy.
No I am not referring to a God, just to interactions.
I is _interaction_ communication, that made / created our societies, each different,
language if you will, these days internet or cellphones, schools,...
maybe even a profit based system, or a one control party system..
Anyways there is much to discover, much of what we called junk-DNA is shown to have a very basic function.
If I grew up again maybe I would have gone for that field and build my own dino in these days.

One guy invented the steam engine.. now people worry about their \'lectric car tires...
The commie-nukation eh communication was what converted the new idea and got others to accept it and explore and improve it further.
Fascinating thing.

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Sunday, June 4, 2023 at 7:01:14 PM UTC+10, Jan Panteltje wrote:

On a sunny day (Sat, 3 Jun 2023 23:34:00 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
bot Anthony William wrote in
8b3ac463-3bb0-4156...@googlegroups.com>:
On Sunday, June 4, 2023 at 3:40:06 PM UTC+10, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Sat, 3 Jun 2023 09:43:30 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote in
16c21c47-46b6-41fd...@googlegroups.com>:

Retro- attribution:

\"As the famed French mathematician Henri Poincaré might have phrased it, cells are no more piles of genes than a house is a pile of bricks.\"

Scholarly summary of the topic:

https://www.noemamag.com/cells-not-dna-are-the-master-architects-of-life=
/

An example of just how primitive the understanding is, but they\'re getti=
ng =
there:

\'How do we know what we don\'t know?\': Scientists completely define the process of methylation

https://phys.org/news/2023-06-dont-scientists-methylation.html

Nice article
the solution or question is:
How do cells communicate with other cells?

We have two systems that let them do that - the nervous system (which works= with electrical signals) and the hormonal system, which depends on circulating chemicals (hormones) which is slower but offers a wider range of signals.

You are confusing cells with organs.

Organs are just collections of cells. The confusion is all yours.

Same in our society,

There\'s certainly quite a lot of communication between human individuals..
By and large, cells don\'t lie to one another or put a lot of effort into spreading fatuous nonsense, so the analogy isn\'t up to much, though Jan Panteltje may not be aware that most of what he tells us is fatuous nonsense.

Still running the same 100 line script?

Your defects are simple, obvious and persistent.

Anyways, for cells to do their part in say when forming a humming bean (like you for example)
they have to know what other cells are doing to make decisions about what they do themselves.

Much like our society is evolving / structured.

Our society has evolved in ways the leave room for people to lie to other people and do well out of it.

We need to refine it in ways that make lying less profitable.

> A cell that becomes part of the retina or a cell that becomes part of the liver, or whatever, cannot just do that from a basic plan (like the DNA) that all cells have (like a textbook).

Of course it can. All it needs to know is that have been ear-marked to be part of the retina or part of the liver. That what methylation is about.

> It has to adapt to the cell society it exists in and follow some guidance, some feedback so it knows its position, function and what role to play so to speak.

Life adapts by getting new DNA , and this happens by imperfect transfer of DNA into egg cells and sperm cells. Once a particular egg cell has fused with a particular sperm, the genome is fixed and doesn\'t change. It reacts to it\'s environment in the body according to the program embodied in the DNA sequence, and if the program is wrong the organism gets sick and may well die. This is a congenital defect, and kills infants from tine to time.

> Are cancer cells rebels?

No. They are merely defective cells where the program has been corrupted during cell replication.

Its a bit of philosophy, yes I know they can make organs from basic cells, build also organs needed to connect.. and have an individuality, 2 hearts or 10 eyes may work for some species ....

So there must be some communication system, some hierarchy.

Of course there is.

> No I am not referring to a God, just to interactions.

But you don\'t know enough about the interactions to say anything useful.

> It is _interaction_ communication, that made / created our societies, each different, language if you will, these days internet or cellphones, schools,...

Language is definitely part of it. But we have to put food on the table to keep the society working so actions are also necessary.

> maybe even a profit based system, or a one control party system..

Both have ways of getting the necessary actions carried out. Bit have a nasty habit of carrying out less useful actions.

> Anyways there is much to discover, much of what we called junk-DNA is shown to have a very basic function.

It seems to be instructions for when to turn the enzymes on and off and which enzymes to make, in what volume.

> If I grew up again maybe I would have gone for that field and build my own dino in these days.

Pond scum would be more your level.

One guy invented the steam engine.. now people worry about their electric car tires...

The communication was what converted the new idea and got others to accept it and explore and improve it further.

Language seems to be what we use to find new ideas - although it\'s more likely that new ideas come up when when we make a mistake when trying to communicate an old idea, and recognise the error as productive,

New ideas aren\'t much use until they are communicated, but they do have to be reduced to practice too.

> Fascinating thing.

You\'d find it a whole lot more fascinating if you knew what you were talking about.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Fred Bloggs]

On Sunday, June 4, 2023 at 1:40:06 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:

On a sunny day (Sat, 3 Jun 2023 09:43:30 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote in
16c21c47-46b6-41fd...@googlegroups.com>:

Retro- attribution:

\"As the famed French mathematician Henri Poincaré might have phrased i> >t, cells are no more piles of genes than a house is a pile of bricks.\"

Scholarly summary of the topic:

https://www.noemamag.com/cells-not-dna-are-the-master-architects-of-life/

An example of just how primitive the understanding is, but they\'re getting =
there:

\'How do we know what we don\'t know?\': Scientists completely define the proc=
ess of methylation

https://phys.org/news/2023-06-dont-scientists-methylation.html

Nice article
the solution or question is:
How do cells communicate with other cells?

\"Cells typically communicate using chemical signals. These chemical signals, which are proteins or other molecules produced by a sending cell, are often secreted from the cell and released into the extracellular space. There, they can float – like messages in a bottle – over to neighboring cells.\"

https://www.khanacademy.org/science/ap-biology/cell-communication-and-cell-cycle/cell-communication/a/introduction-to-cell-signaling

Same in our society,

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Monday, June 5, 2023 at 12:35:14 AM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote:

On Sunday, June 4, 2023 at 1:40:06 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Sat, 3 Jun 2023 09:43:30 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote in
16c21c47-46b6-41fd...@googlegroups.com>:

Retro- attribution:

\"As the famed French mathematician Henri Poincaré might have phrased i=
t, cells are no more piles of genes than a house is a pile of bricks.\"

Scholarly summary of the topic:

https://www.noemamag.com/cells-not-dna-are-the-master-architects-of-life/

An example of just how primitive the understanding is, but they\'re getting =
there:

\'How do we know what we don\'t know?\': Scientists completely define the proc=
ess of methylation

https://phys.org/news/2023-06-dont-scientists-methylation.html

Nice article
the solution or question is:
How do cells communicate with other cells?

\"Cells typically communicate using chemical signals. These chemical signals, which are proteins or other molecules produced by a sending cell, are often secreted from the cell and released into the extracellular space. There, they can float – like messages in a bottle – over to neighboring cells.\"

https://www.khanacademy.org/science/ap-biology/cell-communication-and-cell-cycle/cell-communication/a/introduction-to-cell-signaling

A more detailed answer than I could produce of the top of my head, but probably more detailed than Jan Panteltje can process.

> > Same in our society,

Clear failure to snip. Are drug dealers engaged in a form of communication? The drug dealers are signalling that they want money and will run risks to get it.

The buyers are signalling that they are willing to take foolish risks for dubious benefits. It\'s pretty unspecific communication.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Sun, 4 Jun 2023 07:35:10 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote in
<a52bb4dc-2163-46b4-9332-0f4246ceaaa9n@googlegroups.com>:

On Sunday, June 4, 2023 at 1:40:06 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Sat, 3 Jun 2023 09:43:30 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Fred Bl=
oggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote in
16c21c47-46b6-41fd...@googlegroups.com>:

Retro- attribution:

\"As the famed French mathematician Henri Poincaré might have phrase=
d i=
t, cells are no more piles of genes than a house is a pile of bricks.\"=


Scholarly summary of the topic:

https://www.noemamag.com/cells-not-dna-are-the-master-architects-of-life=
/

An example of just how primitive the understanding is, but they\'re getti=
ng =
there:

\'How do we know what we don\'t know?\': Scientists completely define the p=
roc=
ess of methylation

https://phys.org/news/2023-06-dont-scientists-methylation.html

Nice article
the solution or question is:
How do cells communicate with other cells?

\"Cells typically communicate using chemical signals. These chemical signals=
, which are proteins or other molecules produced by a sending cell, are oft=
en secreted from the cell and released into the extracellular space. There,=
they can float – like messages in a bottle – over to neigh=
boring cells.\"

https://www.khanacademy.org/science/ap-biology/cell-communication-and-cell-cycle/cell-communication/a/introduction-to-cell-signaling

Thanks, very clear and nice article!

 

[Tom Del Rosso]

Fred Bloggs wrote:

Retro- attribution:

\"As the famed French mathematician Henri Poincaré might have phrased
it, cells are no more piles of genes than a house is a pile of
bricks.\"

Scholarly summary of the topic:

https://www.noemamag.com/cells-not-dna-are-the-master-architects-of-life/

\"Karen is not alone in being a natural chimera. Indeed, the first human
chimera was identified in 1953, the same year that the double helix
structure of DNA was discovered.\"

How could they have determined that at the time?


--
Defund the Thought Police

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Wednesday, June 14, 2023 at 10:15:01 PM UTC+10, Tom Del Rosso wrote:

Fred Bloggs wrote:
Retro- attribution:

\"As the famed French mathematician Henri Poincaré might have phrased
it, cells are no more piles of genes than a house is a pile of
bricks.\"

Scholarly summary of the topic:

https://www.noemamag.com/cells-not-dna-are-the-master-architects-of-life/
\"Karen is not alone in being a natural chimera. Indeed, the first human
chimera was identified in 1953, the same year that the double helix
structure of DNA was discovered.\"

How could they have determined that at the time?

Perhaps just by looking at chromosomes in individual cells, or the proteins those individual cells were producing.

Eye colour is heritable, and if you had one brown eye and one blue eye you\'d have to be a chimera.

--
Bil Sloman, Sydney